Metal Gear Solid 2 models?

[TheDyingInformant]

Hiya, Cool new forum section here. =)

Well. I guess asking never hurts, though what I'm asking for I already know is impossible to get, through the years I've tried to get it from different sources. Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance = the unmoddable game? The PC game that is amoung the most impossible to hack and mod for? Possibly. I know it has been modded to a limited extent. It's not like I can try as I don't have any programming or hacking knowledge, nor do I care to learn it. I want someone to help me access MGS2 files for many reasons, but I would say the main reason being to access/extract the character MODELS and their animations, for use in another game.... If that is even possible?

Or is this forum more for asking general 3D modelling questions, and the request is in reguard to making new models from scratch, or the how-to do something special to mod the MODDABLE games - like Half Life 2?

Seeing as how I have the first request thread in this new forum, hopefully there will be more attention on my struggle now. Although, I certainly understand and respect the failure from before: Its so difficult, not enough free time to explore it fully, too many more popular requests that would help lots of people. Ahh, I'm always the underdog... But, I'm just gonna state, this is still something I want, and other people want, its just usually the fans don't have the knowledge, or the people who do don't have the game....

Whatever I can do for you to help, please let me know. I can try to get you whatever files you may need, but the problem is that they are really freakin huge (the files that probably contain the model information, not that I know for sure).

But if you attempt this, and its futile, well, just let me know. I'm used to it. I'm pretty sure it would take someone who hacks CONSOLE games to be able to do this, because the game is a direct port from the Playstation 2 game, and I think even the file structure remains practically identical. But its worth exploring, so let me know if you wanna try and help, and I'll help you get the files in whatever way I can!

Thanks.


Edit: Ok I've changed the request of this topic, now that MGS2 characters ARE available, I want to know how I can improve on them! See below for the update.

[Xela]

Hi TDI,
the purpose of this forum is to address any needs or questions in regards to modding graphics or models. Let me perhaps quickly walk trough this kind of hypothetical situation applicable to your Metal Geear Solid2 game. I say hypothetical, because I do not know this game at all. But providing that you can somehow open the files the next problem could be that the files with 3D models even opened, may be in some obscure 3D program which no one would have a clue about. This where I could step in and if lucky having also some collections of converters and tools, I could be able to convert it to something which either could be edited in some more popular 3D editor. Or at least viewed, or else.

I can also try to make you simple model if you need one. I can get you a link with free model from outside which you can then do it yourself.

There might be a situation that the model in the game is so simplistic that someone would like to make it little more up to the current standards.
There might be request to put someones digitised face on the model. Retexture something. Whatever.

There are many ifs, and buts .... but going back to your first question : what else do you know about the models in that game?

[Xela]

Are these the models from MGS2 ?
Interesting stuff. Specially I like this commercial cargo ship. But let us be little realistic. Those are the professional 3d works of art . They are guarded not only by some pretty hefty scramble-mamble encoding, but simply by copywrite law. Not that we did not know that in most of the cases


http://www.konami.jp/gs/game/mgs2_doc/e ... model.html

[TheDyingInformant]

Hi. Thanks for your reply.

Yes, that shows some of the 3D models there. What that is, The Document of MGS2, is a special documentary type software on the Playstation 2. You can view and rotate all the character and other models, view the levels and the scrapped level designs, watch all the cutscenes from any angles, etc. But as you could see there, that is not a site where you can download the models for yourself to use as you please. (and as you say, it is probably not legal).

Well I am not trying to do this for any illegal means, just personal educational use and interest, to see what I can do with them. I do not know anything about the models of the game, but I believe they were made in either 3D Studio Max, or Soft Image. I don't remember. When the game is installed, or from the DVD, I can see alot of files but not make sense of them. And there are many more files that LOOK like files, but instead must actually be archives that hold alot more files (textures, what have you). But I can't even open these, or extract them, or anything. That is what I was trying to do in the Xentax game request forums, but never had any luck there. I suppose it is not until I have some luck there, or somewhere else, and then once I DO have access to the models, you could help me out further there to convert them?

There's just nothing I can do. Why am I too stubborn to give up already? lol

[Mr.Mouse]

Hehe, TDI, you do seem a little obsessed with that old man Solid Snake

Seriously, good to see you drop in here again.

[lionheartuk]

Has ANYONE got ANY info on this game whatso ever?
Because as far as I know NONE has managed to hack this game or even view a single file.
This would be a morre then wecome addition to any decoding program
Please can someone shed some light on this old dog?

[TheDyingInformant]

Hehe, TDI, you do seem a little obsessed with that old man Solid Snake

Hah! Indeed...... But lovin' every minute of it. Ahh, is this the fate of lonely girl gamers?

But make no mistake, I'm not into OLD MAN Snake (MGS4). You don't want to even get me STARTED....



ANYHOO, I'll continue the topic with an update.


Well, ofcourse now with the success of Turfster's Solidus program, we have access to MGS2 textures and models! And as covered, I'm obsessed a bit (devoted, loyal, determined, however you wanna call it) which in turn will be a GREAT asset for keeping my interest in learning 3D modelling, even though I'm first practicing on other people's characters. There's just one problem here.....

I'm a total rookie! lol

Well, I don't know if I have a SPECIFIC request here, but I am wanting to update these characters with realistic textures and even some model tweaking. But I really need some advice here, or perhaps even direct help if anyone is willing!

1) What do I do about making realistic skin textures and beard/stubble? Are there any sites to get such textures from? I can't find anything! And I totally don't know how to paint well in PS (don't have a wacom either), so my attempts might look sad.... I can edit stuff a bit, I've been practicing, but I am pretty sure I need a solid BASE to work off of.

2) Is there a good picture example of how to make a skeleton/rig for a human character? Different tutorials have different opinions on where the bones should be placed. Does anyone know a good placement for natural human movement that is typical in games today?

3) How should I model muscles of a human male? I want to touch up some characters, since they are a tad blocky looking these days, although I know the best outcome will be impressive textures. Any suggestions here? I may very well have to pass a model onto some talented guy with spare time who wants to help me out. But I do want to learn it as well.


So basically, what does it sound like I need here? Any tips, and recommended sites? If I need someone to actually make something FOR ME, I'll let you know. I totally won't be surprised if it comes to that. =P

Any help would really be appreciated!

[lionheartuk]

2) Is there a good picture example of how to make a skeleton/rig for a human character? Different tutorials have different opinions on where the bones should be placed. Does anyone know a good placement for natural human movement that is typical in games today?
Any help would really be appreciated!

Well dependsing on What you plan on animating the bones can be different.
ie: a runing movement (LOwer body), will only need one for each foot, one for lower leg and another for Upper leg.

But most games THESE DAYS use Motion Capture anyways.
I mean. thats what im using for my own game.
I am good a 3D modeling so if you need any help in this area il be happy to help you along the way.

[TheDyingInformant]

Well actually, you really want to have a joint for the bending of the toes or else the feet always will look flat and phoney.

I've learned some interesting things about modelling lately, and because Solidus doesn't extract the bone information for the characters, if they have bones, I went back to the Document on PS2 and I saw some interesting things. Like how they used rigid binding, and it doesn't look good sometimes when one limb goes into another one, and it REALLY looked wrong in one particular cutscene, however, I was looking at an angle you aren't meant to see normally so yeah. And then I saw on a another model, that their skeleton probably doesn't have enough joints in the harm, and they improved this in Snake Eater I think. Because on a Seal model, the wrist was turned and this totally pinched and distorted the arm and texture. You are actually supposed to have TWO extra joints in the arm. The wrist joint is only meant to make the wrist go up and down, but to rotate it, thats meant for a seperate joint to turn the whole lower arm properly.

I catch on quick, eh?


But yeah, I have no idea how many joints they can usually get away with for game characters but games get more and more realistic these days. I am confused about how to make shoulders move properly. You are supposed to add a joint to help the chest move, but what about the shoulder blades area? I'm buying a Maya book that should help me understand how to make smooth animation for game characters - how to rig properly.

Motion capture? How the heck do you use motion capture for your models? Oh, perhaps you are doing this at college and you can use their motion rooms and equipment. Ofcourse I do not have access to this.

[lionheartuk]

Motion capture? How the heck do you use motion capture for your models? Oh, perhaps you are doing this at college and you can use their motion rooms and equipment. Ofcourse I do not have access to this.

Yes my UNiversity has a motion Capture suit, tho at the moment its broken so i havent gotten a chance to use it yet.
But you CAN download motion capture animations off the net, I knwo a good site for it aswell, I got soem fromt here to look at (havent got around to it yet though lol.

Well the best way tto create a good 3d skelington is to do it this way.

- Look at how many BONES/joints you have in your OWN body, thats really the best way to do it, well unless oyu want to have someone that can bend unrealistically, ie: the fear from MGS3, he must have had EXTRA bones, unless they used VERTEX animations for him that is.
But motion capture INVLOVES bones and i know for a FACT that thats what they used for MGS3 and MGS2, cos i have seen some of the motion capture tests and stuff, there are some of the document of MGS2 aswell lol.
Il help you all i can.
THo its more helpful if you on MSN because its easier for me to send you files that way.
Thanks

[TheDyingInformant]

Yeah. Study real humans bone movements. But the muscles and how they derform is the hardest thing! I may very well need somebody with Maya to put Snake into the T binding pose for me because I try to do it with his arms hanging down, but its very difficult and his shoulder muscles get screwed up. he will need to be fixed somehow. But I am trying.....

Well, I know they use motion capture, that's obvious, and I've also seen the videos of it too. But what I do not know is whether they do that for GAMEPLAY animations, when you control the character. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did - it always looks fantastic.

[lionheartuk]

Yeah. Study real humans bone movements. But the muscles and how they derform is the hardest thing! I may very well need somebody with Maya to put Snake into the T binding pose for me because I try to do it with his arms hanging down, but its very difficult and his shoulder muscles get screwed up. he will need to be fixed somehow. But I am trying.....

Well, I know they use motion capture, that's obvious, and I've also seen the videos of it too. But what I do not know is whether they do that for GAMEPLAY animations, when you control the character. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did - it always looks fantastic.

Yes lol they use it for ingame stuff aswell.
BUt if u want to make the T pose th ebest thing is to use VERTEX aniamtion, streatch aach vertex/polygon til it looks corret in that pose.
The once that is done simply apply bones.
THo il admit ur gonna have MOST trouble with Fingers, as ul need to scale the model A LOT so that the bones fit in lol.

[TheDyingInformant]

Well, thanks for your suggestion.

I found out that the T pose is not really recommended and not necessary. I think before I worry about binding, FIRST of all, I am recreating the model.

The models are low poly in this game, and for the most part they look great (new textures will help the MOST I know), but I need to practically make Snake's body from scratch to give it more details, and that way I will have a proper base to make the costumes look better too.

But I really don't know how to model TONED bodies properly. I need to have a great reference, both for the shapes and for the textures. Can ANYONE help me out here? I've never been too great at humans. Where can I find some good free references?

[lionheartuk]

lol.
Well the models look fine so far.
But the best way to mak them LESS straight and MORE rounded is to subdivide the Areas which you want to make more rounded and natural, that way you can grap ahold of the smaller polygons and shape them yourself.
Or you can even CURVE the polygons, im not that good with MAYA btu i remember it has those tools at least.

[sidneymadmax]

http://turvy.dommel.be/MGS/

I think that helps =)

sorry for the topic up