XeNTaX

SaucyMonkey wrote:What we really need is someone to decrypt what Mr.Adults said here.

yeah, the mighty "someone" - heard of him sometimes. But who is? fatduck for example has left the forum.

On the other hand the problem might be just related to absolute/relative coordinates.
I changed the translation of 6 bones (offset= -30.0) and you can see the right leg.
But the shoe is located at the knee so the bones/joints obviously need different offsets:

shakotay2 wrote:

SaucyMonkey wrote:What we really need is someone to decrypt what Mr.Adults said here.

yeah, the mighty "someone" - heard of him sometimes. But who is? fatduck for example has left the forum.

On the other hand the problem might be just related to absolute/relative coordinates.
I changed the translation of 6 bones (offset= -30.0) and you can see the right leg.
But the shoe is located at the knee so the bones/joints obviously need different offsets:

shoeKnee.JPG

Progress! You're beautiful or handsome shakotay2, you get to decide which. Now were you changing the translation in a renderer or notepad and was this before or after it was loaded up? I want to help contribute and this has been a good learning experience for me and I cannot wait until we can get this figured out.

That's too bad about FatDuck though.

SaucyMonkey wrote:Now were you changing the translation in a renderer or notepad

I changed Kentilan's old mdlviewer source which was uploaded by chrrox viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3636
(which doesn't contain the "play rotations only" feature nor an export option)

Sadly it's not as easy as I thought: translation offsets only work for 2 of the 6 bones I changed
because most of the bones in the co_0002.brcha animation file don't have translations.
(LL= leg left, LR= leg right)

"LL-00" no transl
"LL-01" no transl
"LL-02" no transl

> "LR-00" fixed
> "LR-01" fixed
"LR-02" no transl

LR-02 should be the right foot and the transl offset didn't apply.

Have to think about how to change the code but before I've to understand why LL has no transl and LR has fixed ones. That's totally weird.

I'll try to simply put the offsets into the none translation path. That's a stupid approach but might work.

edit: well, cool idea: (sometimes I ask myself why I need so much time to solve very simple things )

Having given myself absolutely no context for what you guys are really talking about here, what was meant by that comment over in the FF13 thread is that some of FF13's animations (like 12's) are additive. In order to apply them, you take any old pose in any old space you like (joint local or model space, doesn't matter, since the animtion's transforms are relative to another transform), then you do a matrix multiply with every joint transform in that pose with every joint transform from the additive animation. The idea behind these things is typically to blend multiple animations together at runtime, often done via some kind of state machine.

I haven't looked at any of the things or data you're tossing around here, so I couldn't say if you're dealing with additive anims, but it doesn't really sound like it. Also, md5anims only have animation data, that's why Noesis is drawing lines and points for you. Load the md5mesh, then drag the md5anim file from an Explorer window or something over the Noesis model preview pane and apply it to the scene when it asks if you want to see the md5anim with the md5mesh. There are 50 other ways to accomplish that in Noesis too, but this is probably the simplest one.

MrAdults wrote:I haven't looked at any of the things or data you're tossing around here, so I couldn't say if you're dealing with additive anims, but it doesn't really sound like it.

guess so. Thx for your input - it's appreciated.

@SaucyMonkey: I think I got to know why the model is clumped when playing the anims with "Play Rotations Only" off: in Kentilan's old source the translations are set to 0.0 (if they don't have fixed values).
Guess "Play Rotations Only" simply doesn't set translations to 0.0.

So we would need the translation values/bones' positions for the initial pose, apply them once at animation startup then play rotations only.

shakotay2 wrote:

MrAdults wrote:I haven't looked at any of the things or data you're tossing around here, so I couldn't say if you're dealing with additive anims, but it doesn't really sound like it.

guess so. Thx for your input - it's appreciated.

@SaucyMonkey: I think I got to know why the model is clumped when playing the anims with "Play Rotations Only" off: in Kentilan's old source the translations are set to 0.0 (if they don't have fixed values).
Guess "Play Rotations Only" simply doesn't set translations to 0.0.

So we would need the translation values/bones' positions for the initial pose, apply them once at animation startup then play rotations only.

So if I understand you correctly then you basically want the translation values for the t-pose of the model right? Otherwise, for each md5anim could easily grab this data by opening it up in notepad++.

But if what you're saying is correct about the translations being set to 0 then there must be an option someplace in Maya to unlock the translation data? In which case that should essentially set it? I'll look into this. As usual if it works i'll let you know. If it doesn't well... you won't see any progress reports or updates from me on that avenue.




baseframe {
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -0.000002 0.000000 15.400000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000002 3.999998 35.000031 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000002 18.499989 37.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000002 46.000000 37.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000002 72.000000 37.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000002 -4.000000 35.000008 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000000 -18.499994 37.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000000 -46.000000 37.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000000 -72.000000 37.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -5.500000 0.000000 38.099998 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( -2.000001 0.000000 50.899994 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 -0.000000 )
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000001 10.000000 -18.600019 ) ( 0.000000 -0.000000 0.000000 )
( -0.000006 10.000000 -58.600021 ) ( 0.000000 -0.000000 0.000000 )
( -0.000011 10.000000 -94.600006 ) ( 0.000000 -0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000002 -10.000000 -18.600019 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000007 -9.999999 -58.600021 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000021 -9.999994 -94.599991 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
}

frame 0 {
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0.000000 0.000000 101.843102 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
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0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.093313 0.161747 -0.057168
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.090120 -0.075983 0.023701
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}

MrAdults wrote:Having given myself absolutely no context for what you guys are really talking about here, what was meant by that comment over in the FF13 thread is that some of FF13's animations (like 12's) are additive. In order to apply them, you take any old pose in any old space you like (joint local or model space, doesn't matter, since the animtion's transforms are relative to another transform), then you do a matrix multiply with every joint transform in that pose with every joint transform from the additive animation. The idea behind these things is typically to blend multiple animations together at runtime, often done via some kind of state machine.

I haven't looked at any of the things or data you're tossing around here, so I couldn't say if you're dealing with additive anims, but it doesn't really sound like it. Also, md5anims only have animation data, that's why Noesis is drawing lines and points for you. Load the md5mesh, then drag the md5anim file from an Explorer window or something over the Noesis model preview pane and apply it to the scene when it asks if you want to see the md5anim with the md5mesh. There are 50 other ways to accomplish that in Noesis too, but this is probably the simplest one.

Hey there, thanks for chipping in. Getting this worked out means quite abit to me so I wanted to say thank you. I understood the context behind your post just the methodology behind performing it was where I was lost.

Yeah, the drag in worked just fine. But now we're back to the same issue we had in the BRRES viewer which is the clumped up bone/joint data. Now, we know the data itself works when we use the "Play Rotation Only" option in the BRRES viewer. What we're trying to figure out however is why it clumps together the way that it does which we're pinning it down somewhat.




_____________

Edit:

http://postimg.org/image/xbnoc61ct/

I couldn't help but notice that regardless of the frame. The translation data says it is set (But then why the clumping?) but oddly it also says that the rotation data isn't actually rotating at all which is quite odd.

SaucyMonkey wrote:So if I understand you correctly then you basically want the translation values for the t-pose of the model right? Otherwise, for each md5anim could easily grab this data by opening it up in notepad++.

yep, but since we're not sure about the exported anim data it's more safe to take the positions directly from the model, imho. (assuming npc001.md5mesh is being exported correctly by Kentilan's viewer)

baseframe {
( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 ) ( 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 )
...

which model does this animation belong to? Is it for npc001?
Since this baseframe uses 26 bones. It should be 25 (or 25 plus 3x not-a-bone).

Anyway this is the skeleton with baseframe data (from co_0002.md5anim) included.
It's a little bit different from the one directly taken from npc001.md5mesh
plus wrong scaling so maybe I better take the data from the original skeleton, but not sure:

No, it isn't npc001. I was playing around with NPC007. Though the animation works for him as well (They all fit the same animations.)

I've managed to get the base frame uploaded into Maya which is nice. But ONCE the animation plays it balls up. We're getting very, very close to figuring this out though which makes me happy.

MrAdults wrote:
I haven't looked at any of the things or data you're tossing around here, so I couldn't say if you're dealing with additive anims, but it doesn't really sound like it.

Are you sure?

frame 3 {
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
-0.002204 0.009674 101.832855 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.010844 0.036425 0.300306
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.002271 -0.061667 -0.022055
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.091645 -0.058319 -0.038153
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.499344 -0.036828 0.054540
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.002534 -0.010428 0.193826
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.091635 0.162315 -0.056667
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.090831 -0.075987 0.023168
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.486145 -0.075716 -0.122385
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.002773 -0.010851 -0.209870
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.078590 0.139531 0.097064
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.020938 -0.037603 -0.133265
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.046961 0.004526 -0.130254
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.002326 0.045083 0.297579
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.128313 0.040577 -0.214606
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.141558 0.000000
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.104667 0.034728 0.066526
0.000001 0.000000 0.000000 0.158354 -0.055691 0.153948
0.000000 -0.000001 0.000000 0.000000 -0.063909 0.000000
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 -0.141843 0.052074 0.011168
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
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0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
}

The translate data is 0.0 and it makes sense. When played in Maya or Noesis it sets the joints to 0 which causes the disfigurement.

MrAdults wrote:In order to apply them, you take any old pose in any old space you like (joint local or model space, doesn't matter, since the animtion's transforms are relative to another transform), then you do a matrix multiply with every joint transform in that pose with every joint transform from the additive animation.

.

How exactly is this done? Any more information on being able to do this? Thank you.

I think we've just to recalculate the anims (i.e. add the transitions): It's totally ugly because I took the baseframe transitions (see pic in my previous post) for three test frames (md5anim).

(If I had taken the data from the t-pose noone would have seen that it works (should work ).)

The transitions of the NULL bone must be left unchanged, I think, because they vary for each frame.

(Other than for the legs I couldn't find the correct offsets for the arms for some weird reason
when changing Kentilan's old viewer code.)

shakotay2 wrote:I think we've just to recalculate the anims (i.e. add the transitions):

baseframe_trans.JPG

It's totally ugly because I took the baseframe transitions (see pic in my previous post) for three test frames (md5anim).

(If I had taken the data from the t-pose noone would have seen that it works (should work ).)

The transitions of the NULL bone must be left unchanged, I think, because they vary for each frame.

(Other than for the legs I couldn't find the correct offsets for the arms for some weird reason
when changing Kentilan's old viewer code.)

That's great to hear. I also tossed it into Unreal Engine 4 and retargeted the skeleton and it also fixed the clumped up animations inside of UE4. Though i'd like to have it unclumped for Maya or Blender as well.

I'd like to see your progress for the normal T-pose. Let me know how that goes! Sheesh... all of this work when Maya or Blender could simply have a "Play Rotations Only" option.

got it:

I've attached an MD5anim file where I've replaced the transitions by the ones from npc001.md5mesh
Load the mesh into Noesis then drag the MD5anim onto it and answer 'No' to the message box popping up.
edit: of course I forgot to leave the NULL bone's transitions as they are - so the indian moves his legs
but he doesn't proceed - funny .

shakotay2 wrote:I've replaced the transitions by the ones from npc001.md5mesh

How can I replace the transitions from the .md5mesh?

Could you explain about that for more detail?

Thanks,

sry. I won't dig up this 14 months old thread.

the initial idea, iirc, was:
"So we would need the translation values/bones' positions for the initial pose, apply them once at animation startup then play rotations only."

Get the npc brres sample from the post as of Jun 24, 2015, 10:01 am. Create a md5mesh file from it and compare it to the md5anim file from my last post.

This way it should be plain to see what I've changed.