The rules have been updated, read them now: Rules!

New Rules, some questions

Post questions about game models here, or help out others!
Ninja
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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by Ninja » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:25 pm

Where is the file format issue in that lawsuit?
It's about emulation and advertising infringements.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1281580.html

But it does bring up a good point, 'fair use' and 'fan art'.
Wouldn't limited 3D model samples come under fair use? (You could even clusterf#ck the textures to make them unusable for other purposes)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Commentary and criticism, of the 3D model formats we look at, might be something to run with.
As for research and teaching, well that's what this forum is about?

Restricting links to include only those that moderators have the delete code for would be alot better than NO links at all, that way your limiting the distribution to research instead of permanently pinning the files for general distribution. 24 hours to PM the delete code or it's removed.
And you can always delete the link/ (or better) the upload after a set period.

Don't like cherry picking copyright law, either abide by it, ignore it, or find a damn good clause.

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by MrAdults » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:41 pm

Are you just trolling or what? You don't see the relation between software that emulates an entire system and interprets all of its game content while performing highlevel emulation to display and enhance that content, and a script that interprets game content? Bleem! won in every case that went to court with Sony and set an important legal precedence in doing so. Likewise in the case of Connectix Virtual Gamestation, Sony won on a certain important count. (though even still it was a relatively small victory in the case) Because unlike Bleem!, rather than reverse engineering and re-implementing the system software (again it was openly expressed that reverse engineering was used to determine the original workings of the PSX and its BIOS, and the court still ruled in favor of Bleem!), CVG included the actual Sony-owned BIOS image. But apparently this was corrected at some point, with the inclusion of a new BIOS based on reverse engineering. Perhaps you can see the parallels here now, hm? In fact, every court case over emulators (even back to the 1980's) using reverse engineering to determine the workings of systems and software has been ruled in favor of the emulator, the only time the courts have ruled against emulation is when the emulator has included actual proprietary copyrighted binary which is distinctly different from writing new software based on findings from reverse engineering. We have a great many reasons to feel safe in writing scripts and programs to decode game content as long as we do not distribute that content.

Sounds to me like you're just trying to back your desire to see this forum embrace illegal practices by trying to shit on our otherwise legitimate practices and goals.

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by mariokart64n » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:23 am

...Ok Say I download a demo off XBOXLIVE.. is it ok to post the files from that demo?

and if so? who's to say if the files I posted are from a demo or not from a demo..?

seems to me there should be a halt on hacking altogether, as it will always fall into a grey area no matter how well you paint that picture
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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by finale00 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:30 am

If it's in the grey area you can still argue that it's ok.

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by Rimbros » Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:59 pm

finale00 wrote:If it's in the grey area you can still argue that it's ok.
Ok asume gray area its ok, but this not solve the original question, i downloaded a game, big game like Conan (30GB), and i want the experts here in Xextax take a view of one file format on this game (.Xor 32kb), i shure nobody agree to download this 30GB only to take a view of 32kb file. where i can upload the sample file? where i can post? and how i can send the samples to all the comunity experts? PM to each Xentax member its not allowed coz its a crazy idea, then that its i want know. :D
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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by Ninja » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:25 pm

It's no wonder someone googlefucked you with that attitude.
I must be a troll if I have a different view to your own on what is and what isn't legal use of copyrighted material.
As for legitimate practices and goals, your kidding me right? You've been happily collecting money from the 'illegal' practices for all these years and suddenly your cleaning up your act now the income has stopped.....
Your going to have to remove the game archive section based on what you think is correct.

Your not improving or transforming (in a positive way) the material used in any way shape or form, everything is a derivative, it violates copyright law, you just don't understand that.
Explain how what your doing isn't a derivative work?
What are you doing to improve anything? NOTHING - it violates copyright law.

Feel safe all you want 'just writing scripts', without quoting content your screwed anyway, as more than one person has pointed out.
Basing the 'legitimacy' of the site on your warped view of copyright law just shows you haven't the balls to run a site like this, we're moving on to the next forum, hopefully not run by a 'Canadian'. (forum died)
Xentax a forum for 'toolz' - LOL

Hillary Clinton said 'BOO' and you shit yourself.

btw, that was a troll, if you don't like it - shove it.

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by MrAdults » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Ninja wrote:It's no wonder someone googlefucked you with that attitude.
Me? I have nothing to do with Xentax ad revenue or really anything else at Xentax, I simply hold moderator status which means I can ban you or fuck with your posts, and that's about it. I also don't make any money or have any expenses (other than my own time) regarding Noesis. Don't confuse my personal views on your stupidity with those of other members of the Xentax community. They may or may not see your feeble subversion as I do.
Ninja wrote:I must be a troll if I have a different view to your own on what is and what isn't legal use of copyrighted material.
Correction: You're likely a troll if you overlook blatant facts which have just been presented to you in the name of continuing your own argumentative tangent.
Ninja wrote:As for legitimate practices and goals, your kidding me right? You've been happily collecting money from the 'illegal' practices for all these years and suddenly your cleaning up your act now the income has stopped.....
See above.
Ninja wrote:Your going to have to remove the game archive section based on what you think is correct.
I don't have a going, I don't know about you though. If I did, though, it wouldn't be removing any forum sections.
Ninja wrote:Your not improving or transforming (in a positive way) the material used in any way shape or form, everything is a derivative, it violates copyright law, you just don't understand that.
Explain how what your doing isn't a derivative work?
What are you doing to improve anything? NOTHING - it violates copyright law.
I don't have a not or a doing either, but I'm glad you think my not is improving and transforming material.
Ninja wrote:Feel safe all you want 'just writing scripts'
Will do, thanks.
Ninja wrote:, without quoting content your screwed anyway, as more than one person has pointed out.
I don't tend to quote content, I quote tools though. See, I just did.
Ninja wrote:btw, that was a troll, if you don't like it - shove it.
I give it a 2/10.

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by Darko » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:10 pm

MrAdults wrote:Are you just trolling or what? You don't see the relation between software that emulates an entire system and interprets all of its game content while performing highlevel emulation to display and enhance that content, and a script that interprets game content? Bleem! won in every case that went to court with Sony and set an important legal precedence in doing so. Likewise in the case of Connectix Virtual Gamestation, Sony won on a certain important count. (though even still it was a relatively small victory in the case) Because unlike Bleem!, rather than reverse engineering and re-implementing the system software (again it was openly expressed that reverse engineering was used to determine the original workings of the PSX and its BIOS, and the court still ruled in favor of Bleem!), CVG included the actual Sony-owned BIOS image. But apparently this was corrected at some point, with the inclusion of a new BIOS based on reverse engineering. Perhaps you can see the parallels here now, hm? In fact, every court case over emulators (even back to the 1980's) using reverse engineering to determine the workings of systems and software has been ruled in favor of the emulator, the only time the courts have ruled against emulation is when the emulator has included actual proprietary copyrighted binary which is distinctly different from writing new software based on findings from reverse engineering. We have a great many reasons to feel safe in writing scripts and programs to decode game content as long as we do not distribute that content.

Sounds to me like you're just trying to back your desire to see this forum embrace illegal practices by trying to shit on our otherwise legitimate practices and goals.
I'm gonna ask this:

Why were all the tools links from doa thread deleted if there were no games files??

It doesn't represent a problem to me, I have those tools backed up since 5 or 6 years, but wasn't it going too far??
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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by MrAdults » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:11 pm

Like Mr.Mouse mentioned, the script run to remove file links had the potential to also accidentally remove tool links and such. Also as Mr.Mouse mentioned, let him know where that has happened and he can restore the links.

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by Darko » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:05 pm

MrAdults wrote:Like Mr.Mouse mentioned, the script run to remove file links had the potential to also accidentally remove tool links and such. Also as Mr.Mouse mentioned, let him know where that has happened and he can restore the links.
Ok thanks, I'm gonna report this as soon as posible for me.
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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by howfie » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:14 pm

i don't think xentax will die; we have no real other place to go. we really don't belong on the other forums. ever see XXXX's YYYY thread (if you've seen the thread you know who i'm talking about lol)? it went something like this :D at least this is how i interpreted it. i don't feel like i belong on the other forums.

XXXX: here, i give you tools and a screenshot of the models you want in 3DS Max.
YYYY: where are the models?
XXXX: extract them yourself.
YYYY: fuck you.
XXXX: i give you tools.
YYYY: fuck you, give me models.
XXXX: i give you tools.
YYYY: fuck you, stop teasing me with screen shots.
XXXX: stop acting like a 12-year old.
YYYY: fuck you, upload fully rigged models please.

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by finale00 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:22 pm

Oh, that sounds like pretty much every game community I've been to.
Or, if you start a thread about reversing the resources in community xyz, you'll get things like

1: HEY COOL IDK WHAT YOU'RE DOING BUT IT LOOKS COOL
2: WTF THAT'S ILLEGAL GTFO
3: YOU WANT TO RUIN OUR GAME HUH?

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by chrrox » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:27 pm

the magic of 12 year olds on the internet only thing on their minds is tits or gtfo.

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Re: New Rules, some questions

Post by finale00 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:06 am

Maybe chrrox can dump his maxscripts and noesis plugins somewhere lol I don't even know what's out there.

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