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Dead or Alive series formats and tools

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mariokart64n
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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by mariokart64n » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:16 am

if I had the programming knowledge I would stay clear of making midware like blender scripts or even maxscripts for that matter.

if possible you should create a standalone tool which exports and imports to already existing formats, or make an easy format that others can follow. that way it opens the door to a wider selection of editing software.

Collada (DAE) and SMD are two examples of text based formats which are widely supported. and if they werent they are easy enough to create a plugin for. A smart idea if you are a python guy is to contribute to a project called noesis. Noesis already has a internal importer and exporter which allows anyone to export to a variety of formats, thus opening the door to more 3d editing software.

again I lack the knowledge to do so, but I may attempt it in the future. But obviously all I can do is script for 3dsmax now, so to each his own.
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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by finale00 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:03 am

if possible you should create a standalone tool which exports and imports to already existing formats, or make an easy format that others can follow. that way it opens the door to a wider selection of editing software.
I think that's the whole point of using blender or 3dmax for importing so users can export to already existing formats.

Blender should have export scripts to (some version of) collada and DAE.

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by gjinka2 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:05 am

if I had the programming knowledge I would stay clear of making midware like blender scripts or even maxscripts for that matter.

if possible you should create a standalone tool which exports and imports to already existing formats, or make an easy format that others can follow. that way it opens the door to a wider selection of editing software.
This sounds like an opinion from someone who hasn't done much research.
For example, what's the difference between Noesis and Blender, other than the fact that Blender can be used as a fullblown 3d modeller? None. The can be both used to import and export 3d files via Python.
It's like saying you use Microsoft Paint instead of Photoshop because you only want to crop your image. Of course Photoshop has many advanced features professionals use to make art, but it doesn't mean you have to use them.

I think I couldn't explain this better than in the guide:
Blender is a powerful 3d modeller. Blender is a great choice if you want to write an importer/exporter as anyone can use your script because the program is completely free, unlike very expensive tools like Max and Maya. In fact users of these expensive tools shouldn't complain, because they can just reexport the data from Blender to a format their own program understands, something which Blender users can't do with Max/Maya scripts without paying. And doing that will require only basic understanding of the Blender GUI.
Writing standalone tools is a bad idea only because there are so many programming libraries and so much more code in the end, if you choose to share the source that is, and most don't. But even when the source is available, I hate going through 3000 lines of complex C++ OpenGL code to just understand the format.
end of rant

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by howfie » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:03 pm

b0ny wrote:Image
More detail! More detail! More detail!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by b0ny » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:07 pm

i can't make a skeleton in blender using python script :(

i make an armature:

Code: Select all

# Create Armature and Object
bpy.ops.object.add(type='ARMATURE', enter_editmode=True)
object = bpy.context.object
object.name = 'name'
armature = object.data
armature.name = 'name'
then i make a bone(i suppose it's the root bone):

Code: Select all

bone = armature.edit_bones.new('name')
bone.tail = mathutils.Vector([0,0,1]) 
but how should i attach the next bone to this one(and the next one)?

i need the skeleton to test on it the mot animation

howfie
be more specific, what kind of details?

[update]
doau aya17 is an interesting model - she wears a doax suit, and this suit is "loaded" in the corresponding bodyparts. need to look for the cat physics block - maybe it's possible to wear on her other doax costumes...
other girls also have skins with doax clothes, wondering if all girls have such skins.

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by howfie » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:41 pm

b0ny wrote: howfie
be more specific, what kind of details?
lol, more detailed textures :-). BTW, which DOA game are you guys currently working on?

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by b0ny » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:04 pm

howfie wrote:
b0ny wrote: howfie
be more specific, what kind of details?
lol, more detailed textures :-). BTW, which DOA game are you guys currently working on?
you're interrupting my zen only because the kasumi's nude model made you horny? you're on the wrong thread/theme/forum/site/domain/sideOfTheInternet pal :)
though for your dark needs you can use greed explorer :)

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by mariokart64n » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:17 pm

sorry I've been distracted by final fantasy XIII-2

you can collect monsters its a bit addicting, but its like random so its hard to collect them all :\

anyway no new news from me, last thing I was doing was porting ayane to xnalara, I rigged the face and fingers being that app doesnt support morphs.. anyway still need to create a solid importer script.
Maxscript and other finished work I've done can be found on my DeviantArt account

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by b0ny » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:45 am

i've made a tool to concatenate a doax costume to a doau model, the results can be viewed in greed explorer. still need to concatenate the cat files, but i have no idea on the physics block and this is very important to concatenate this block.

http://rghost.ru/36474902
in the package also a xpr2emp tool that can convert concatenated files

[edit]
ok guys, i'm on a crossroad here -- i found some bugs in the doa code, and there are two ways to fix the code or to fix the files. it's easier for me to fix the code, because i'm the only one making updates for doao, but if i do that i loose the compatibility with doau(though i can make hacks for doau). so i want to ask some question about doau. is this game worth the trouble? is it still playable on-line? are people still playing this game? will anyone appreciate a pack of doao skins?

mariokart64n
i saw you have imported doau morphing in 3dmax, so you should understand the format. can you help me invert the morphing to make the boobs jiggle inverse? (doax morphing is inversed in doau)

[edit]
Image
and no man were spared that day, nor woman :)

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by mariokart64n » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:31 pm

wow thats crazy,

the morph target section was documented in the older docs. if you want to switch the order just change the offsets in the morph target header

[LONG] "APV" morph magic
[LONG] mor_count


for i = 1 to mor_count do (
[LONG] mor_info_offsets
)

for i = 1 to mor_count do (
fseek f mor_info.offsets[1] #seek_set
[LONG] mor_info_counts (number of morph buffers / morph target count)
[LONG] mor_info_vindex (Object Index)
[BYTE] ??
[BYTE] ??
[BYTE] flag 0x00 = Normal | 0x80 = Reverse ???
[LONG] Number of Vertex Entries in buffer 1
[LONG] Number of Vertex Entries in buffer 2
[LONG] header offset
[LONG] index offset1
[LONG] index offset2
)

for i = 1 to mor_count do ( -- Loop Through Each Object/Morpher
fseek f mor_info.offsets[1] #seek_set -- Seek to Morpher Header
for x = 1 to mor_info.counts[1] do ( -- Loop Through Morph Target/Buffer Offsets (vertex buff)

[LONG] Vertex Buffer1 Offset
[LONG] Vertex Buffer2 Offset
)
)
Maxscript and other finished work I've done can be found on my DeviantArt account

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by drunkenchipmunk » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:22 pm

gjinka2 wrote:
Blender is a powerful 3d modeller. Blender is a great choice if you want to write an importer/exporter as anyone can use your script because the program is completely free, unlike very expensive tools like Max and Maya. In fact users of these expensive tools shouldn't complain, because they can just reexport the data from Blender to a format their own program understands, something which Blender users can't do with Max/Maya scripts without paying. And doing that will require only basic understanding of the Blender GUI.
Writing standalone tools is a bad idea only because there are so many programming libraries and so much more code in the end, if you choose to share the source that is, and most don't. But even when the source is available, I hate going through 3000 lines of complex C++ OpenGL code to just understand the format.
end of rant
Well... writing importers/exporters for Blender (or for the matter, Max, or Noesis) is not an idea that great, and it comes with its own pitfalls:

First of all, you make your plugin/script depentant of the parent package, if for some reason, Blender changes the API (or Max, or Noesis) your script/plugin stops working, and that's the case of plenty of outdated scripts I found arround; they no longer work.

Another thing is that you have to know how to use the given package. Not everybody here knows how to use Max or Blender here, and neither of the two are particularly easy to learn. I know how to use Max, but not Blender.

About Noesis, it's a great tool, but last time I checked, there's no source code available, so any plugins developed for Noesis are bound to the life and maintenance of Noesis itself. If the author stops developing it for whatever reason, all those third party plugins will have been wasted.

So after these two issues, a stand alone tool doesn't sound that bad, right? after all, no matter how crappy they're, the key is they're "stand alone" and can keep running years later.

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by b0ny » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:09 pm

mariokart64n
thanks it worked like a charm.
i have one more request for you. i want to find how to activate the doax skeleton for doau, and i think some experiments can help me but i don't have an xbox for this. can you please swap the hks skin with any other character skin and fix its skeleton type in the cat file to 77(instead of 2) like the hks one, and look in the demo and tell me if the skin is normal or the skeleton is deformed(by some special function for doax models)

if i'll make it out to use doax models in doau i think i'll learn how the falling accessories work(when chars loose their glasses and hats), and will try to make a tool to wear any doax clothes and accessories to any doax character

it's interesting that the guy who made the greedexplorer understands the doax skeleton hierarchy, greed explorer to settle up the model use the same strange skeleton as doax. if someone understand what is the doax skeleton bones hierarchy, please explain it to me :oops:

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by mariokart64n » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:29 pm

there only seems to be 2 hackers in on this project? I could be wrong but nobody else has contributed. b0ny wants a blender plugin, and I want a standalone tool. the problem is I am not a programmer, I have a 3D background and can use 3dsmax to reverse the DOA format to a point.

if you are able to program in another language to develop a standalone tool, then I would encourage you to do so. As nobody else has come to step forward, and I know how stupid it is to create program specific plugins
drunkenchipmunk wrote:
gjinka2 wrote:
Blender is a powerful 3d modeller. Blender is a great choice if you want to write an importer/exporter as anyone can use your script because the program is completely free, unlike very expensive tools like Max and Maya. In fact users of these expensive tools shouldn't complain, because they can just reexport the data from Blender to a format their own program understands, something which Blender users can't do with Max/Maya scripts without paying. And doing that will require only basic understanding of the Blender GUI.
Writing standalone tools is a bad idea only because there are so many programming libraries and so much more code in the end, if you choose to share the source that is, and most don't. But even when the source is available, I hate going through 3000 lines of complex C++ OpenGL code to just understand the format.
end of rant
Well... writing importers/exporters for Blender (or for the matter, Max, or Noesis) is not an idea that great, and it comes with its own pitfalls:

First of all, you make your plugin/script depentant of the parent package, if for some reason, Blender changes the API (or Max, or Noesis) your script/plugin stops working, and that's the case of plenty of outdated scripts I found arround; they no longer work.

Another thing is that you have to know how to use the given package. Not everybody here knows how to use Max or Blender here, and neither of the two are particularly easy to learn. I know how to use Max, but not Blender.

About Noesis, it's a great tool, but last time I checked, there's no source code available, so any plugins developed for Noesis are bound to the life and maintenance of Noesis itself. If the author stops developing it for whatever reason, all those third party plugins will have been wasted.

So after these two issues, a stand alone tool doesn't sound that bad, right? after all, no matter how crappy they're, the key is they're "stand alone" and can keep running years later.
Maxscript and other finished work I've done can be found on my DeviantArt account

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by b0ny » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:15 am

mariokart64n wrote:there only seems to be 2 hackers
the second one is me? :) maybe some cracking skills using a debugger, but not a hacker in any way :)
mariokart64n wrote:b0ny wants a blender plugin, and I want a standalone tool.
what kind tool do you exactly want, maybe i can contribute to that, though i'm a very bad programmer/engineer -- that's not ma' thing :)

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Re: Dead or Alive series formats and tools

Post by finale00 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:37 am

drunkenchipmunk wrote: First of all, you make your plugin/script depentant of the parent package, if for some reason, Blender changes the API (or Max, or Noesis) your script/plugin stops working, and that's the case of plenty of outdated scripts I found arround; they no longer work.
Not that big of an issue.

If for some reason microsoft decides to change their API like maybe release a new OS, we'd have plenty of outdated applications. And the stand-alone tool would no longer work anymore on the newest OS.

I think API changes is the least of our worries. If anything, we can just keep using the older version of the tool since it still works right?
so any plugins developed for Noesis are bound to the life and maintenance of Noesis itself
Noesis may be closed-source, but unless there was something seriously wrong with the internal workings of it, plugins wouldn't go to waste after the owner abandons it. My assumption is that noesis has been developed far enough to the point where most things that it supports are supported well, and anything that needs to be added will be given to plugins to deal with. Except core functionality I guess.

However I would go for a stand-alone tool not because alternatives are closed-source, or may change API, or whatever, but simply because the stand-alone tool will specialize in the specific formats that it's meant for and can handle any format-specific details.

If the whole point of getting a stand-alone tool is to just import and export models...totally pointless unless you're writing a tool for practice or education worth. Might as well write a noesis/blender/3dmax plugin. However if it's going to evolve into a modding tool, then ya those other alternatives just aren't good enough.

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