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 Post subject: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:22 am 
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so i rarely get the time to browse through viewforum.php?f=10 anymore, but when i do, it's because of a pm.

this time its a request to find an updated key for an extraction tool i've written, only with a screenshot of it in java - and my tool was written in c++. turns on that this guy has paid $$$ for a port of my open-source tool with some extra features :eek:

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:44 am 
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yeah, if you have any remotely useful open source tool, people will try to make money off of it. i stopped releasing code as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:39 am 
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Yep, people are huge ass eaters, and their hunger for all things fecal increases exponentially in the realm of modding and tools. Everybody wants to be somebody, or at least screw somebody.


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Such is the holiest of response to said ass eaters.


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:52 pm 
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Most open-source licenses explicitly allow commercial use of the software (possibly under some specific terms wrt. the source code). This is one thing I never understood: Why do people think "open source" equals "must be free-as-in-beer".

(Disclaimer: I don't know which tool you're talking about or under which license it was released, so take the following with a grain of sand).
My understanding is that if that guy spent his time porting your tool into another language, and even adding some features, he's perfectly allowed to charge $$$ for it. He would even be if he just took your code, compiled it, and then sold it. He might have to release the source code as well though, or he might have to mention/credit you, depending on the license, but that's a completely different point.

So why is everyone here so angry about things like that? Is this some sort of Ego-thing among modding tool creators? I honestly don't get it...
-Darkstar

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:42 am 
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Darkstar wrote:
So why is everyone here so angry about things like that? Is this some sort of Ego-thing among modding tool creators? I honestly don't get it...
-Darkstar


I agree with this. Next time the guy who paid will learn to google better
Besides, who would pay for a tool? I read from Mr. adults Noesis got only 3 donations before a recent post who got him a couple more.

maybe people can trick others in a total non-english speaking countries/communities, but I insist it shouldn't be so hard to find on a search engine (if you have it on github for example).


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:49 am 
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Noesis is a completely free program (no nag screen or anything in the actual program telling people to donate), and most of the people that use it are dirtbags that just want to look cool ripping content to put in gmod/xnalara/etc. and don't give a second thought to the fact that someone actually spent a lot of time reverse engineering all of those data formats.

Irony is that I'm not the kind of cocksucker that rips off someone's code, because I'm capable of producing whatever code I want to produce myself. If I were such a cocksucker, Noesis would be an unholy piece of trash with nag screens and full version encryption and all kinds of things that would force my poor scummy users to give me $5 and fuel my code-theft profits before they could go make yaoi with FF models.

If you don't understand why it's offensive for someone to profit from something you spent a lot of time on without your permission, you've probably never made anything anyone cares about without stealing some large portion of it from someone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:26 am 
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MrAdults wrote:
If you don't understand why it's offensive for someone to profit from something you spent a lot of time on without your permission...

But that's exactly the point: if you release something under an Open Source license, you're giving people permission to re-use it. And depending on the license, the person re-using it doesn't even have to share the source code (BSD). There's hundreds of commercial products based on FreeBSD, some costing more than 100.000$, and nobody in the FreeBSD project is complaining about being ripped off (even though they could really really use some money)

Now, if the OP was talking about a GPL tool, and the guy porting it didn't release the source code, then that's a serious problem (note that the GPL doesn't require you to make the source code available for download, it's perfectly fine if he distributes it on-demand via email, for example). But saying "re-using any open-source code and making money off of it is wrong" is simply incorrect.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:40 pm 
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Don't pretend for a second that these shitbags give half a shit about which license the code is released under. Whether it's GPL or a custom license with explicit terms, they will ignore what suits them because they know that, when it comes down to it, no one will do a fucking thing. We aren't corporations with legal teams on staff.

Also, being within legal limitations and being a shitty cocksucker are not mutually exclusive.


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:17 pm 
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You know what, just for the sake of showing how naive it is to think open soure licenses matter in this context, let's just say we're dealing with GPL here. So someone writes some C++ code and releases it under GPL. Someone else half-ass ports that code to some arbitrary VM compiler with custom byte code, adds some magical cocksucking feature, and sells it without releasing source. You can't compare binary, you can't rely on haphazard similarities from an end user standpoint, and the cocksucker selling this shit has no obligation to show their source for evaluation.

What are you gonna do about it? You're going to suck a hard cock with mustard on it, that's what. Replace GPL with any open source license, wish, permissions, or just a simple wish for human decency, and the same holds true. I hope you like mustard. And cock.

The wife and I are quite enjoying Deadwood.


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:23 am 
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MrAdults wrote:
Also, being within legal limitations and being a shitty cocksucker are not mutually exclusive.

True. I never said anything different.

I just don't understand why people release their source code and then complain if someone else uses it. That's the point of open source. If you don't want that, don't release the source code. Problem solved.

And of course there are ways to make people comply with licenses. One of them is simply asking. Sounds crazy, right? But it works sometimes. You can also engage legal activities against them but most of the time that's not really worth it. So what then, abandon the whole open source concept just because some people don't appreciate it? No. There are always leechers and suckers who take advantage of anything they can get their hands on. You can't do anything against it. So just keep it cool, ignore them and move on. That's what I do. I mean let them pretend they're "uber leet" all they want. Let them take your code and use it to boost their ego. The higher they get the deeper they fall at some point. And they WILL fall. Or move on. Or both.

But we had this discussion here once before (open source or not?) and our viewpoints are too different so I think we'll better leave it at that

By the way, I really don't understand your infatuation with cocks and other swear words, you sound like a 11 year old who's bitter because he has had his favorite toy taken away or something. You can shoot down every sensible discussion with an attitude like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Injecting a little Deadwood wouldn't harm a sensible conversation at all. And might I add, when you talk, your mouth looks like a cunt moving.

This guy wrote the code and released it. If someone did something with it that he doesn't like, he's got every right to come here and point out the fact that someone was a cocksucker. To try to call him on this in the interest of your naive idealism while ignoring the practical reality of open source exploitation and disrespect surrounding this community and others, you're really just looking to jerk your own ego, which indeed is a true open source advocate's nature.


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:34 am 
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In the interest of saving us both time, here are my replies to your next 20 posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:06 pm 
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If people are wanting to reverse engineer your program and crack it and sell it as their own, they are going to do it, no matter what you do. You can go to great lengths to protect your game but the only thing you can really hope for is to just slow them down.

You can do things like, if you have a compiled program, or something with a UI, you can put a notice saying that this program is free and to download it <here> , that way they have to do a little bit more work in order to try and sell it.

But the good thing here is that the tools created here are pretty obscure so if they do try and sell it, they won't get much money.

I release my code under a 'do whatever you want' license (pretty sure thats just MIT), so if someone wants to try and make money with my random scripts, they can go for it =P


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Cow
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:19 pm 
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i just made this thread because i found it funny that instead of getting in contact with me, the author of the tool, they paid to get updates from someone else, then came back to me to fix it for them

and this is the internet. licensing is not something you can enforce after you release something. i also enjoy seeing my stuff used, even if its been repurposed or sold

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