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 Post subject: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:30 pm 
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which would be a good engine to make a custom rpg, ala skyrim but possibly more optimized and without all that annyoing hardcoded limits?

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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Outside of my first question of 'Are you good enough to make something that takes an entire 100+ person company several years to produce?'

Will you be doing the art or only the programming?

As for engines, I'd personally recommend unity, I've been using it myself for 2 years now, I've also used UDK many times, and am currently using it for freelance, but the UDK licensing terms are honestly ridiculous, for a company that wants to attract indies, they're doing more or less everything to counter that.

UDK means you can get more pretty with less work by simply using the default shaders and whatnot, though it means you'd be stuck with the 'Unreal Engine' look, that so many Unreal games suffer from.

Unity wise you'd have to put in a fair bit more effort into the shader creation as unity doesn't come by default with amazing default shaders like UDK does, but due to the asset store and a huge forum, plus plenty of free resources, you'd be able to get up and running gameplay wise a lot faster than UDK, there are actually kits being sold for not very expensive ($30 maybe) to create a skyrim style RPG, you'd still need to put in quite a bit of time into your own scripts and systems however, but the asset store could save you quite a lot of time.

With UDK you'd get the full tools available, whereas with unity free you'd be missing a few minor things, things such as render to texture, lightmaps and realtime reflections/refractions only exist in pro, though there are ways to get the same effect using free, they do require a little more time and effort.

I can explain a little more if you want, however I've no idea of your experience level when it comes to either game design or programming (I'm guessing thats your specialty at least).
For all I know you could have 10+ games under your belt and this is the next logical step for you, whilst you might also be someone interested in game design and this is planned to be your first project, In which case I'd recommend against creating something so large scale just yet.

Other engines you could chose from are:
Blitz3D
Unigine (it looks lovely, but the way it functions, especially for art asset importing, is a huge pain)
Blender (though this project may be too large scale for blender unless you're able to extend its functionality).

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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:36 pm 
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thanks for the complete answer.
what bugs is is mostly that Unity appears not to be Multithreaded.
plus, since you've been using it for a while, have you ever used one of those "kits"? is there one you recommend for RPG?

my personal sources of inspiration
Planescape Torment
Eternal Darkness
Kingdom hearts
Diablo II
Final Fantasy
Skyrim

something that allows a lot of freedom, is 3d and possibly multithreaded.

the Unreal engine was also used for Mass Effect, right? that one DID look pretty.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Devilot wrote:
thanks for the complete answer.
what bugs is is mostly that Unity appears not to be Multithreaded.
plus, since you've been using it for a while, have you ever used one of those "kits"? is there one you recommend for RPG?

my personal sources of inspiration
Planescape Torment
Eternal Darkness
Kingdom hearts
Diablo II
Final Fantasy
Skyrim

something that allows a lot of freedom, is 3d and possibly multithreaded.

the Unreal engine was also used for Mass Effect, right? that one DID look pretty.


I think the newer unity 4.0 and above uses multithreading.

However, to quote a post from the unity forums from a unity graphics developer

Quote:
Right now unity does multithreaded mesh skinning (uses as many cores as there are); also audio, network, and some smaller things are on separate threads. We have more multithreaded stuff in the works (like some noticed, that's quite important on Xbox 360 / PS3).


As per your mention of freedom, basically any game engine allows complete freedom, how much freedom you have is really down to you as a developer in all honesty.

I've not tried the RPG Kits for unity unfortunately, as much as I'd like to design a full fledged RPG, I'm just not at that level yet, and I'm still finishing my current game.

Your list of RPGS is quite different in style and gameplay to your initial posts mention of skyrim.

Unreal Engine was indeed used to make Mass Effect, it did look pretty, but are you a 3D artist, lighter or awesome material editor? If not, then graphics should really be your last concern right now, not putting you off at all, just trying to show you that picking the prettiest engine usually isn't the best method of selection.

I'd recommend unity honestly, I don't like the way UDK works personally, it handles in a way that I find a little cumbersome and at times rather counteractive.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:02 pm 
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unity appears to be very daunting, as one has to start from zero. or I am mistaken?
those rpg kits look handy, but they cost....


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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Devilot wrote:
unity appears to be very daunting, as one has to start from zero. or I am mistaken?
those rpg kits look handy, but they cost....


Hmm i suppose it depends what you mean by that, I'd say you start from zero in more or less every game engine ever.

Though in unity you do have some built in functions like character controllers and stuff, along with a bunch of unity demos from the store (that're free) and also from the unity website.

Unreal doesn't really give you much in the name of scripts as it seems to imagine everyone wants to make an FPS and makes no attempt to brand itself in any other way, you'll be able to make an FPS with unreal in seconds, just an object to shoot and yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:30 pm 
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then I'm off with unity, I'd say.
Mass effect, I guess, used a very heavily modded version of the engine...


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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Devilot wrote:
then I'm off with unity, I'd say.
Mass effect, I guess, used a very heavily modded version of the engine...


Yup that it did, a lot of engine preference is really down to personal preference, much like how some of us in this forum use Maya for 3D whilst others use Softimage, Blender or 3DS Max, its all personal preference, what I find messy and clumsy, you might love I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:17 am 
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any unity plugin recommended for RPG?


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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:45 am 
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Devilot wrote:
any unity plugin recommended for RPG?


Only the ones I'd recommended before, if you do a search for RPG in the asset store you'll find some good stuff quickly enough, but you'll have to pay for most of it, no way around that unfortunately.

Though if this is your first game, and it sounds like it is, I'd really recommend learning the basics of game design and game programming before jumping into such a crazy huge project.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Unity still doesn't do skinning on the GPU? Is that really true? I remember thinking it was laughable on first-gen iOS devices because of its awful skinning performance. Back then you had matrix palettes but well-optimized CPU skinning was usually still a win because it was so easy to get transform-bottlenecked on the MBX, so it was reasonable to skin on the CPU, but their CPU implementation was still so incredibly bad that they clearly just didn't know what they were doing there. There isn't a single platform Unity supports now where GPU skinning wouldn't be the better solution 99.9% of the time, so I guess that solidifies that Unity always has sucked and still does suck at skinning. Seems like one of those things you'd see as rather important to get right. But hey, throwing more CPU cores at shitty code is always a good option.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:21 pm 
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MrAdults wrote:
Unity still doesn't do skinning on the GPU? Is that really true? I remember thinking it was laughable on first-gen iOS devices because of its awful skinning performance. Back then you had matrix palettes but well-optimized CPU skinning was usually still a win because it was so easy to get transform-bottlenecked on the MBX, so it was reasonable to skin on the CPU, but their CPU implementation was still so incredibly bad that they clearly just didn't know what they were doing there. There isn't a single platform Unity supports now where GPU skinning wouldn't be the better solution 99.9% of the time, so I guess that solidifies that Unity always has sucked and still does suck at skinning. Seems like one of those things you'd see as rather important to get right. But hey, throwing more CPU cores at shitty code is always a good option.


I don't know what it supports now.

Tbh I don't REALLY know what GPU skinning is, Sure I'm a 3D artist but rigging/skinning is something I've never done, care to break it down for the layman.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:09 am 
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As an artist, this doesn't really concern you at all, all it means for you is that performance on animated characters sucks more than it needs to. Which you may or may not notice depending on where your actual performance bottlenecks are.

It refers to performing weighted vertex transforms (or using weighted matrices or however you want to approach it) for skinning on the GPU. There's rarely a good reason on current hardware to perform those transforms on the CPU. (perhaps excluding PS3 SPU skinning, if you're really managing to bottleneck yourself on vertex time while having CPU time to spare) This is for pretty much the same reasons we don't perform modelview/projection transforms on the CPU.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:18 am 
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Unity will give you some good programming experience, and it's fine for non-AAA games. I'd recommend it for the experience


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 Post subject: Re: Best Game engines
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:42 am 
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horsebatterystaple wrote:
Unity will give you some good programming experience, and it's fine for non-AAA games. I'd recommend it for the experience


Which means unity is basically fine for everyone wanting to experiment and who's not got a large budget and a very skilled team.

Too many people want to jump in with the big boy engines and create the next skyrim and it always ends the same way.


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