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 Post subject: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:15 pm 
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For a long time I'd been tired of triangulate game models and I found they would be more pleasing to the eyes with clean and tidy wireframes like these:

Image
Image
Image

Technically it's not very appropriate to be regarded as reversing wireframe, but merely a custom quadifying algorithm.
I believe that the Quadify option in 3Ds Max may be based on similar principles.
However sometimes it appears to perform better than 3Ds Max coz it's more conservative instead of being risky:
Image

It's difficult to be 100% accurate unless the face buffer is ideal, but an accuracy above 90% is quite feasible. So the above results are quite acceptable to me.

Of course a 100% reversing is possible if you got the original wireframe data:

Image

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Last edited by Bigchillghost on Tue May 01, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Every model is triangulated at the end anyway, so I suppose it's for esthetics only.
It looks much better that triangulated ones for sure, but only usage of this feature would be only for modelers.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:26 am 
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PredatorCZ wrote:
Every model is triangulated at the end anyway

Yep I know coz that's how GPU works.
PredatorCZ wrote:
It looks much better that triangulated ones for sure

I'll take the "that" as "than" then. (:
PredatorCZ wrote:
...so I suppose it's for esthetics only.
...but only usage of this feature would be only for modelers.

I believe that there's still a difference between a game model and a so-called game art. And all game arts are quadrilateral before they're ported into the game engine, I suppose, since they need to be rigged and animated.
I'm not some kind of obsessive of esthetics but I think it's worth a try if we can improve the model to a better stage, especially if you show no interest in modding a game. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:36 am 
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Bigchillghost wrote:
I'll take the "that" as "than" then. (:

Nice catch, you got me there sir.

Bigchillghost wrote:
I suppose, since they need to be rigged and animated.

Rigging doesn't need quadrified meshes, riggers are working on vertex level in most cases.
They rely on soft selection, mirror, and even painter like tools, but they all works on vertex level.
Difference can be with morph targets, since the best way is to create multiple meshes and then feed them into Morphing tool.

Bigchillghost wrote:
especially if you show no interest in modding a game. :)

This, I think it's essential to have quad meshes for modding.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:40 am 
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PredatorCZ wrote:
Rigging doesn't need quadrified meshes

Technically indeed it doesn't, coz weights affect only vertices. But I usually hear modelers complaining a lot about the troubles result from triangulate models and that's why they need good topology. Well this might not be the same thing we're talking about.
PredatorCZ wrote:
This, I think it's essential to have quad meshes for modding.

Thought you agreed that rigging doesn't need quadified meshes. Never modded a game so I have no saying on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:34 am 
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I too was interested in this from first day I discovered this amazing 3D world of possibilities.
From a modeler/3D artist point of view quads are better and much more easy to work with.

The option in 3dsMax though is never accurate and very messy, in fact most of times makes a triangulated mesh worse after quadifying it.

Its a bit confusing as to what exactly are you saying with this line though.
Quote:
the Quadify option in 3Ds Max may be based on similar principles. However sometimes it appears to perform better than 3Ds Max

Your talking about same thing it seems, unless you meant to say something else your using besides the Quadify option inside 3dsMax, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:14 pm 
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mono24 wrote:
I too was interested in this from first day I discovered this amazing 3D world of possibilities.

Good to have someone that agrees on it.
mono24 wrote:
The option in 3dsMax though is never accurate and very messy, in fact most of times makes a triangulated mesh worse after quadifying it.

It depends on different objects to be dealt with. Obviously simple objects are easier to handle. Actually I don't think there'd be a perfect method for all cases as a slight unexpected modification on the wireframe could possibly affect the whole result.
mono24 wrote:
Your talking about same thing it seems, unless you meant to say something else your using besides the Quadify option inside 3dsMax, right?

I'd been talking about my custom quadifying algorithm all the time so the "it" does not refer to the Quadify option in 3Ds Max. You'd understand what I meant if you had taken a look at the pic below that.

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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Bigchillghost wrote:
I'd been talking about my custom quadifying algorithm all the time so the "it" does not refer to the Quadify option in 3Ds Max. You'd understand what I meant if you had taken a look at the pic below that.

That's exactly what I understood the first time, but it was unclear also, so I think its cool that someone has a better approach and understanding at it, and actually having something to work with.
Big question though, you plan on making a Max script perhaps?
Or your keeping it for personal use, because id sure love to give it a try/test or what ever the case may be.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:15 am 
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mono24 wrote:
Big question though, you plan on making a Max script perhaps?

Nope. Not familiar with MaxScript and I'm too lazy to learn another scripting language. I implemented it in C, and placed it in every obj convertor I wrote to obtain results containing both the original triangulate game models and the quadified ones. But after I'd implemented another algorithm to 100% reverse engineering the wireframe as rendered, I just treat it as an alternative solution, thus it didn't go much further.

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Last edited by Bigchillghost on Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:06 am 
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Have you tested blenders "tris to quads"?

Open model
Edit mesh
Select all
"tris to quads"

I can do a test if you have a model for me


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:07 pm 
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pixellegolas wrote:
Have you tested blenders "tris to quads"?

No, I havn't. Blender is only used for format exchange purpose to me. I wouldn't even know that there's a "tris to quads" option in this software if you hadn't mentioned it. But what I need is an independent algorithm that does not rely on any 3D softwares.

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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Bigchillghost wrote:
I implemented it in C, and placed it in every obj convertor I wrote.

That sounds nice, anything available to try? Id love to try that convertor you speak of, or its just for your personal eyes only?


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:25 am 
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mono24 wrote:
Id love to try that convertor you speak of

No need. It's already been tested and proven that it only works for a few games. But I'm not going to release the tools for these games as I don't expect to see their models everywhere.
I'm here just to show the possibility, and inspire people with this new idea. It's not difficult at all if someone that has even a little programing knowledge is interested in this too.
So you see? The point is about the quadifying algorithm, or related discussion, not any specific tools.

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Last edited by Bigchillghost on Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:40 am 
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Bigchillghost wrote:
So you see? The point is about the quadifying algorithm, or related discussion, not any specific tools.

Thank you for clarifying, and I guess who ever is a coder/programmer can take it in to consideration as a viable option.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Model Wireframe
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:23 pm 
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mono24 wrote:
anything available to try?

Well, I found it also works for another game I don't care much about. And the list could be expanded in the future maybe. So yes you've got something to try with now. :D

Grab the sample files here:
viewtopic.php?p=139489#p139489
Same usage as the one I posted in that thread at the same page:
viewtopic.php?p=139563#p139563

You can create a clone of the triangulate one in 3Ds Max and use the Quadify option on it then compare it with the one quadified by my tool. Have fun! :)


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